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Talk:Verrat
Historical connection Where does all the information on the historical connection to the stab-in-the-back legend and other stuff come from? Is that in the episode or the websites somewhere? If so, one should probably seperate reality from grimm!verse better and e.g. make a seperate article for Grimm!Haffner instead of linking to wikipedia, because otherwise this article makes the real person look like a right-wing weirdo. ~ Sprachkind 10:59, April 25, 2012 (UTC) :I've made some changes; see if that is less misleading. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • ) 02:57, April 28, 2012 (UTC) ::I was just asking because obviously I have no easy access to the episode to check what they said about the topic; and so couldn't know if they made a fictional Haffner in-universe who wrote about and supported the topic (because the real Haffner obviously doesn't). So if he's just noted as the doylist source for the name and doesn't exist in grimm!verse, then you fixed it ok. ~ Sprachkind 10:37, April 28, 2012 (UTC) :::Dunno what a "doylist" is, but yes...the Verrat in Grimm is based off Haffner's book about a real-life conspiracy theory. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • ) 23:39, April 30, 2012 (UTC) ::::The terms Doylist & Watsonian refer respectively to an out-of-universe or in-universe perspective on a fictional work (they derive from Sherlock Holmes). Yeah, my question just was whether the show's writers said 'yeah, we named it after that book' or if the show's characters referenced Haffner as having written about the to-them-real Verrat as being real. Which would deviate Grimmverse!Haffner from real Haffner, as he wrote on the November Revolution and that of course the legend was a load of bullcrap to put blame on the SPD. And if Grimmverse!Haffner had had a different opinion than real!Haffner, that would have necessitated a disambiguation. (I know the show also refers to other real/historical people, but those cases are rather more obvious that 'of course X wasn't a Wesen for real', etc.) I hope that clears it up. ~ Sprachkind 11:17, May 1, 2012 (UTC) :::::Gotcha. ;) Haffner would definitely be a doylist then. And this one actually required some research; no one from NBC came out and explained it. Using the bits I learned from the episode, I did a series of searches and found the name Verrat, investigated it, and sure enough, it was a fictitious European organization associated with Germany and conspiracies. Unfortunately, there's not a Wikipedia article on the book. :( That's sort of depressing. But hey. Mystery solved, anyway. :) Bob the WikipediaN (talk • ) 04:08, May 2, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Well, there is, just in German. ~ Sprachkind 07:52, May 2, 2012 (UTC) I just want to clear something up here: "Der Verrat" by Haffner does not deal with the stab in the back legend. It deals with the Novemberrevolution in Germany, it's causes, the way it played out and why, while the Weimar Republic came out of it, it ultimately failed. The original Title of the book was actually "Die verratene Revolution" which means 'the betrayed reovlution'. The betrayal in the title refers to the fact that through a series of actions and decisions the social-democrats in Germany basically screwed over the revolution. So yeah, I doubt that the book title is what gave the group their name (the book came out in 1968 anyways) unless the show runners really, really didn't do their research. :Another revision, thanks for pointing that out. They don't teach us about the German Revolution in American history classes, so this concept is entirely new to me. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • ) 20:36, May 6, 2012 (UTC)